#69. Saving seats at church.
May 12th by JonIt’s been a while since I remixed an older post. Usually I only do that if I feel like I completely blew the original post and wasted a good idea with sloppy writing. But recently someone anonymously posted a comment on “#69 Saving seats at church” that made me think I should remix it. Here is snippet of what they said in response to what I wrote on that post:
“What is so terribly wrong with someone saving a seat for their spouse? Sheesh, so sorry that I want to enjoy the message with my husband who is busy ushering the visitors into their seats and helping them get settled. Maybe church should only be for single people and the rest of us can sit out in our car and listen to the radio broadcast. Yeah, that is much more welcoming.”
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Since the comment was anonymous I couldn’t directly reply to the commenter’s blog or email. And I started to think, “Maybe the original post was unclear. Maybe I need to be more explicit with the rules of church seat saving? Maybe no one’s done that yet and this person is not reacting out of hurt, but confusion and that the kind, generous, dare I say correct way to ‘love on’ them and countless other people is to create a definitive guide to seat saving?”
So that’s what I did and that’s what this is.
7 Things you need to know about saving seats at church:
1. It’s OK to save a seat for your spouse or significant other.
Despite what that reader above said, I was not advocating that you can’t save a seat for your husband. Where would that leave him? I’ll tell you where, sitting on your lap. You’d be all tangled up in a mesh of limbs and hymnals and awkwardness as the people next to you tried to pretend that wasn’t happening. As noted in one of the most surprisingly controversial posts, Massages During Church, I’m not for that.
2. Don’t save a seat for someone at the end of the aisle.
Why would you put that kind of pressure on a visitor? That’s like giving a little kid the emergency exit on a plane. If it’s your first time to church you’re not going to know that I am sitting in the middle of the aisle like a tightly wound spring waiting to be released so that I can grab my kid and race out of the church parking lot. What’s inevitably going to happen is that at the end of the service they will sit in their seat, effectively blocking the whole aisle, telling you that “Hey, maybe I should give this God thing a shot.” But I won’t know that, so I’ll ruin that tender moment by running across the aisle, using everyone’s head as a stepping stone like some sort of scene from a Jackie Chan movie.
3. Once someone has come to your church for 7 weeks, you can’t save them a seat.
Service starts at the same time every week. If your friend has been at least seven times, then they know this. They shouldn’t act surprised on Sunday morning when they wake up and think, “Oh snap, they’re starting church at 9:30 today. When did that happen? Oh that’s right, 1987. I should call my friend and ask him to save me a seat.” If you have an ill grandmother, serve on some ministry, have kids, are late because you were nursing a baby deer that had been hit on the side of the road back to health, etc. you get a free pass on this one.
4. Don’t save a seat with your shoe.
If you’re going to save 47 seats, then grab 47 bulletins. There’s no call for putting a shoe or a mint or taking every key off your key chain and laying them down individually on each seat you want to save.
5. Don’t expect me to help you save seats.
I hate to say no to people. I’ve gotten better at it as people keep asking me to advertise some cuckoo things on Stuff Christians Like (You read the site, saw that there were zero ads and felt like your online gambling websites would be a good fit for SCL? Really?) but in general I hate saying no to people. It’s a problem. I’m working on it. And saving seats for someone often becomes a constant parade of “no.” I had to do it last year at Catalyst as I waited for my little brother and when someone would ask me if they could sit in the seat I was saving I felt like they were saying, “Do you mind if I sit here and worship God? Do you mind if I relieve my weary bones and collapse in this spot of resting and renewal. Ohhh the Gwinnett Arena is so big, won’t you let me sit here please, kind sir?” So if you ask me to help you to save seats, expect me to pass on that opportunity.
6. Release the seats when it appears your friend isn’t coming.
If the announcements are done, the worship music is over, the offering is collected and the sermon is about to start, let that seat go. It’s over, they didn’t come. Set that seat back into the wild. If it really loves you it will come back.
7. I don’t have a seventh idea but I know better than to end a list on a Christian website with 6.
Do you save seats?
Do you break these rules?
Do you have your own?
Comments
I once got punched in the back (yes PUNCHED) at a special revival type service (after waiting in long lines in the cold to get in) because a lady saving seats finally decided to give them up after the service started and waved my friend and I forward to claim them. Then she punched me in the back because she meant the seats only for my friend and insisted I move, though there was plenty of room for the both of us and no other seats were available. Unbelievable but true -I think there ought to be strict rules regarding violent seat saving, like automatic ejection from the service. But that’s me…
If the church is going to be less than half full, saving seats isn’t really that big of a deal. I go to a tiny church, and attendance is rarely over 50 people in a sanctuary that could seat a lot more. Saving seats is hardly an issue for several reasons. 1. People tend to fall into place. Yes it’s the “same seat for years” type situation. I mean, it’s not that intense, but people do tend to stay in a general area. 2. There is a lot of space. 3. It is a rare occasion that we have people who come to church and don’t know anyone who is there. When it happens it is treated like a holiday. They are treated like royalty and we make a point of getting to know them so the next time they come back they will know people. The point is that everyone who comes who isn’t a regular knows someone and has someone to sit with. Either way, the saving of seats does not make anyone feel unwelcome because generally it’s handled in a “I need to save a seat for my friend (odds are you know the person, small town, and if you don’t, you should, I’ll introduce you) you are welcome to join us.
I think the issue with seat saving as discussed in the post is the fact that it is used to keep barriers in place, just like it was in junior high. That I have a problem with
As far as singles and the church is concerned, it is really interesting when you go to such a small church that everyone knows you. True, I am a university student in my early twenties, but almost everyone I was in my high school Sunday school class/youth group with have kids by now, and I routinely get strange looks when I’m asked about why I haven’t married and started a family yet, and I reply “after my PhD.” I don’t feel bitter about it, but sometimes I think something so family oriented as church has trouble seeing the perspective of people who don’t have families. Though the worst is when my mom holds the babies, and I catch her (for just a second until she regains her composure) giving me a “why am I not a grandma?” look.
last spring i was a bridesmaid in a wedding in a little old church in philadelphia. the pews were strewn with afghans, cushions, tissue boxes, water bottles, and other personal items. i asked what was going on and someone explained that the people at this church were REALLY territorial and PERMANTENTLY saved their seats by ‘marking their territory’ with personal items. their seat saving was not just a sunday morning thing… they set up permanent installations!
spouse or significant other? really. come on.
if someone had a blog called “stuff christians don’t like” the first post would clearly be “single people.” Marrieds, go to church. alone. just once. at a church where you know no one. and go to the “coffee hour.” And here is the really hard part: the next sunday, when your alarm goes off, try to convince yourself to get out of bed and do it again. Church is the loneliest place on earth. I would rather go to dinner alone, to the movies alone, to a play alone, pretty much anywhere other than church.
marrieds: try to make church a little friendlier to us? Invite us to do things with couples or just with one spouse at a time, being single isn’t contagious, I promise.
Pastors: just one stinking sermon, just once directed towards single folks.
Hey Jon, I was the anonymous commenter you are quoting. I totally got your article. My response, and I should have made it more clear at the time, was in response to MHN1957′s:
“I came into church and asked a man who was sitting by himself in a pew meant for 5 people “Do you mind if I sit here?” OK, you guess which was his response.
A) Sit down friend! Want some gum?
B) Of course not! What’s your name?
C) My wife is coming.
D) No Speeky dee English.
It was “C”. The Pastor can say “We love visitors, sign the card, wear a ribbon”, but the real message is that I was not welcome.”
I still maintain (to MHN1957) that saving a seat for your spouse DOES NOT mean you aren’t welcome. Maybe you shouldn’t be so sensitive and just go pick another seat.
It’s me again, the Anonymous pot-stirrer
To Thursday re: “Oh, never mind, I’m cool, don’t worry that you just seat-rejected me in front of everybody.”
I think I just peed my pants a little bit!!!
To k3davis re: Try being a perpetual visitor of your own church for 10 years no matter how active you are, and never having anyone get beyond the question, “how is work?” as they shuffle their families out to the minivan.
I’m sorry to hear that you deal with this. I don’t think it has anything to do with married vs single though. It sounds like there’s a deeper problem. Do you get beyond the question “how is work?” with these families? If you initiate maybe they will start to come around. Maybe family peeps assume (wrongly) a single person doesn’t want to hear about little Johnny’s struggle with math or little Sarah’s ballet class, so instead of bothering you with their lives they ignore you. Most people have stuff to say – they just need to know there is a
To Jewda re: I just find it funny that someone randomly and anonymously took you seriously and got very defensive.
Again, my response was to all the marriage haters who posted to the original article. Not to Jon. I agree with the original article. And yes, I’m defensive because I didn’t get married so I could still sit alone in church just to insulate the feelings of a handful of single people.
To Alice Wassam re: Has this anonymous reader been single and in church? Do you have ANY idea how “family” oriented church is??!!
Actually, I HAVE been a single woman IN CHURCH for 10 years before getting married. I am quite familiar with how family oriented church actually is. As it should be.
To no one in particular:
I’d be curious to read the post Jon will hopefully write on being single in the church. I don’t remember feeling bitter toward married couples. I admired the family unit and messages directed toward marrieds and/or parents. I wanted to learn as much as possible for when God did bring my husband along. But now I have people jumping down my throat for wanting to sit beside my guy at church. Like it’s MY fault you are still single. The backlash from single people is truly shocking. I had NO idea the group felt the way they do towards married people.
our beloved anonymous,
I agree that my experience is symptomatic of a larger problem, and don’t blame the marrieds on account of their being married. I do think (even from what you’ve replied) that most churches have replaced church community with family community, when the latter ought to fully accompany rather than replace. I don’t personally mind sitting next to couples or even sitting by myself (generally), and I like the messages on family relationships as long as they aren’t persistently completely ignorant of the rest of us. But the church is still a community of families rather than A family, one community, in which all members can equally participate, which is what it seems church ought to be. We manage to be individualistic, even about our families!
Congrats on finding your guy, and go ahead and save him a seat, but don’t let that pesky “handful of singles” get you down.
To Still-Anonymous-Commenter (not meant as a dis for holding the anonymity, just trying to keep you separate from the other anoms out there): Yeah, we single people tend to get a little harsh sometimes. Kind of like married people do. Because we’re all human beings. Personally, I don’t hate that the church is a good place for families, and I wouldn’t advocate not sitting by your spouse at church (although, honestly, I feel a little lonely if I’m sitting there while one or both of you are giving one of those church massages…warn me if you’re that kind and I will speak to you pleasantly in the hall but will sit elsewhere until I can control my discontent).
The thing that bugs me is that I think sometimes we miss the boat on the big issue. That we are all great sinners in need of an even greater Savior. That neither marriage nor singleness saves you from your heart issues and your sins. If I’m discontented about your church massages and allowing that to distract me from God’s Word, I can guarantee that if I’m ever married and in a position to receive church massages (massages which I think I would deny on principle based on my own past issues), I would find something else to distract me. Because the problem goes deeper than my life situation, it goes to the core of my heart, and the Holy Spirit is still at work clearing out that temple.
I’ve just had this growing feeling that the married/single conflict is being used to mask our common strengths and weaknesses. I want to work towards honesty with each other…which maybe means when I see you sitting with your husband I smack down my whiny voice and ask to sit with you guys, or when you hear me say sometimes I want to be married you don’t take that to mean “to the very next single man I meet.”
k3davis, re: But the church is still a community of families rather than A family, one community, in which all members can equally participate, which is what it seems church ought to be.
You make a good point. I wonder what changes can be made in each of our churches to foster that One Family community? Hmmmm, something to think on. Thanks!
Thursday, I love your point on things distracting us or masking the real heart issues.
BTW, I just say no! to the neck massages. They are as distracting to the recipient as they are to the onlookers! =)
I forgot about this until I read the post again. We have an older man in our congregation that is so crazy about saving seats he waltzes in during the middle of first service, runs to the front, fakes a cough to cover the sound of taking off his jacket and saves seats for our second service. Sure he’s distracting from the altar call but he’s got to get a good seat.
Here’s a sticky issue I face Sunday after Sunday.
Our kids go to children’s church while we are in service and then join the congregation in the sancutary at the Eucharist. Hubby and I TRY to save seats for our 3 kids (the baby is with us)…so we take up a pretty wide swath of an aisle as you can imagine.
We are also a pray before the service church – so there isn’t really much chatting.
Inevitably, some late-comer slips in while we are praying and takes the seats we are saving for our kids. (they evey scoot the personal belongings we layout to save the spots! By the way, our church is a money-tight new church so most everyone only takes one, maybe two bulletins per family.)Thus when the kids come tromping in….we face trying to cram 6 people (2 adults, 3 kids and the baby) in 2-3 spaces.
The times we actually are able to hold the spaces, we get some confused and sometimes irritated looks from others as they come in late searching for an open spot.
As I said, we are not a “pre-church chatting” type of church, so it is awkward to have to explain this as people are looking wistfully at our open seats.
What do you make of this situation? Do I have to start bringing those blow-up dummies that people use to fool the police in the HOV lanes…or do I need to make little signs: “This seat being held FOR MY CHILD”? LOL!
To Mrs. Anonymous,
(Mrs. not meant as snarky, but just that you are obviously a married woman) The problem is not married people, as much as it is the treatment of those of us who aren’t. I don’t think anyone is expressing resentment at people for being married as much as they are pointing out that the church’s treatment of single people often falls short of Christ-like (who was single by the way, since I think very few people actually buy that Da Vinci Code stuff) and need to be improved. I think the point that has been made repeatedly is that married people don’t see this in quite the same way because they are not single. My problem is not that people are married. It is being treated as though I am somehow defective as a human because I am a single woman at an age that, quite frankly does not signal the fast approach of spinsterhood. Most people in my church get married at about 20-23. I’m not even out of that range yet (though given my career plans, I probably will still be unmarried when I do make it out of that age group), and people are already gossiping about reasons why I’m still single. The people in my church are good people, but it is still humiliating to think that a good deal of them secretly think something is wrong with me and that nobody wants me. My problem is not with married people. I don’t mean to imply that all married people think this way by any stretch of the imagination. But this does happen often, not just to me, and it is something that needs to change, because it reflects attitudes that are not very loving.
Dear Mrs. Anonymous,
1. I’m fairly certain none of us were blaming YOU for being single. But, on the off chance that someone out there is, I’ll leave it with I’m certainly NOT blaming you. God has me where He has me for this season. I’m cool with that.
2. I’m sorry if you felt anyone was “jumping down your throat” for wanting to save a seat for your husband. I’m feeling certain, again, that that was not anyone’s intention.
3. Yes – church should be family oriented (did someone say it shouldn’t be?). It should also be children oriented, youth oriented, college-age oriented, single oriented… well you get my drift. Please show me where it says, “Upon this rock you shall build my church and it shall be family-oriented only.” Could you imagine a church without a Children’s ministry? Youth ministry?
4. I, for one, am not bitter toward married couples. Most of my closest friends are married. I think everyone, whether single or married, live a much more full and happy life when we surround ourselves with folks who are all in different places in their life. I’m glad you “admired the family unit and messages directed toward marrieds and/or parents.” Maybe you were much more mature as a single than the rest of are.
5. I am not suggesting, AT ALL, that every single sermon be focused on singles. One a year would be GREAT. You can have the other 51 (or 103 if your church has a mid-week service).
6. I think it’s sad, however, that you are assuming that this entire group (some of whom I assume are married) feel “the way they do towards married people.” Which way is that exactly?
So to avoid any further confusion: I love my married friends – I hope to be one someday! I love my single friends – and I’m enjoying being one of those! I, personally, have NO problem with you saving a seat for your husband! And since Jon’s #1 item in a guide to seat saving was:
1. It’s OK to save a seat for your spouse or significant other.
I’m thinking we all think it’s ok! So save away, Mrs. Anonymous.
Anon and others-
First off, very cool to read the back and forth. I really appreciate you guys throwing some ideas out there. Second, I’m working on a post about singles with some of my single friends. I had no idea how much I needed to write another one until people started talking and sharing different angles on the whole thing. Thanks for doing that. The best ideas on this site tend to be the ones that start out when someone says something real. Keep an eye out for that in a few weeks
Jon
Better to leave a comment of no worth what so ever on a christian blog than leave it with 66 comments. Whose got your back baby?
riaellegrazi:
I agree…those attitudes do not promote unity at all. But when you say this,
“but it is still humiliating to think that a good deal of them secretly think something is wrong with me and that nobody wants me.”
it makes me wonder if people are really actually thinking this about you or is this something you think about yourself and assume others are thinking it too?
If I hit a bad note during a worship song, I assume the entire congregation 1) heard it and it totally ruined their moment with God and 2) they all now hate me and want me to leave the praise team and the church. LOL. In reality, no one even noticed.
I bet no one is thinking there’s something wrong with you. If anything they probably just want for everyone else to be as happy as they are.
I just don’t want singles to assume marrieds are thinking badly of them. I don’t think many actually are. We don’t pity anyone. We don’t think we are better than anyone. We are, however, just like everyone else…trying to let God invade every shadowy place in our heart.
We are all on the same team! =)
~Mrs. Anon
Great site loved it alot, will come back and visit again
Agree with all the single folks. It’s tough being single in church these days. And saving seats…well…that can be a real pain. I’m just glad I’ve got friends to sit with. But when they’re out of town, I’m left sitting alone which is not fun. But oh well…I guess I just have to get over it.
In the days of hymnbooks we used to throw those down to save seats. I guess that’s harder to do with the video projector now being the norm.
I think #7 should have been don’t save seats where someone else usually sits. You know,those people who insist on sitting in the same seats in the same pew week by week? It could get ugly if you mess with their routine.
Jon, I’m just so relieved you didn’t end that post with only 6 ideas
There use to be a row for my family, i.e. the usual spot for the X family and everyone knew it. Now my siblings have married and moved away. (Yeah for them). My Dad leads worship and my Mom is in the nursery nearly every Sunday and I do AV(for purely selfish reasons as the AV room is the warmest place in church). The rare Sunday I don’t do AV I rotate spots and sections in the church. Even as a single gal I don’t have to worry about the whole awkward sitting with a single guy thing as the only single guys are a full decade younger than me.
It still amazes me how my insecurites come out in church.
I once heard an older woman in my church bemoan the fact she wasn’t able to sit in her usual seat one Sunday, she was afraid the pastor wouldn’t know she was at church and judge her for missing a Sunday.