Favorite Post #8. Subtly finding out if you drink beer too.
Mar 21st by JonI am not a great debater. If you asked me to come to a debate, I would ask, “Is there an eagle on the panel?” You would reply no, and then I would decline your offer. I am OK with that, the goal of this site is not to debate or make my argument do verbal push ups and eat protein shakes until it gets strong enough to beat up your argument. The goal of the site is to instigate, to give you a hammer carved of pure sarcasm with which you can smash up old thoughts, ideas you accidentally inherited from your parents and all the other silly stuff we deal with as Christians.
That’s why I had to remix the post I wrote about alcohol.
This has been a fun, crazy couple of days at the SCL. (I call it “the SCL” because that sounds like “The OC” which makes me feel cooler than I really am.) A few months ago, the post about whether tattoos are sinful opened up a whole can of brightly colored worms. And then a few days later the post about the show, Family Guy, did the same thing. And I think that’s good.
I don’t have all the right answers. I wish I did, because I would grind them up and make a spray called “Cool Answer Cologne.” Then when your friend was confused about something you could just squirt them in the face until they understood. Or parents could mist their teenagers while they slept at night to make sure they did not get a cheek piercing. (which I am cool with)
But until I develop that cologne, I think it’s great we can disagree and argue and teach each other. And hopefully today’s post will give us all the opportunity to do that. Because as much as I like blogs where the writer debates you, that’s not what I’m here to do. I’m here to instigate.
Remix:
I think that there are a few divisional issues when it comes to the Christian faith in the year 2008. Some are big and deep, some are small and shallow, but all of them are ideas that we end up taking sides on. One of my favorite, is alcohol.
If you are a Christian that drinks a beer after mowing the lawn or has a glass of red wine, there is a tricky little game you play when you meet new Christians. It’s called “do these Christians drink too?”
The reason you play this game is not that you’re afraid of looking bad in front of people that don’t. I have friends that choose not to drink and they never get on me about having beer. They never try to choke hold for drinking wine. Not at all. But there are people that will leg drop you if they find out you drink. People that will say things like, “I really think all the bad things that happened to you are God punishing you for starting to drink wine.” (Real quote from a friend)
And there’s never been a good way to smoke these people out. A guide, as it were, to find out who is going to punch you in the face with a judgmental attitude and who is going to love you where you are regardless of what you are drinking. Until now.
This is the official Stuff Christians Like Subtle Guide to finding out if another Christian drinks too. (The OSCLSGTFOIACDT if you will)
1. The Garage Poke
Studies show that 78% of all Christians hide their beer in the garage when people they don’t know that well come over. OK, I conducted the study and the research methods are suspect at best, but trust me, it’s true. Make up an excuse to go to the garage and then poke around. Don’t snoop. Snooping is what the lady on “Murder She Wrote” did. Just poke, there’s a huge difference.
2. The Move
This one takes commitment. You either have to help them move or move yourself. Is selling your house and buying a new one worth discovering if your friend drinks too? Depends, how long are you expecting to know them? What, you don’t want to invest in them by faking a move across town? I guess you and I are different. The key is to see what type of moving boxes they use. People often go to liquor stores to get boxes when they move. Ask about the wine boxes they are using. If they say, “I had to go to that pit of hell liquor store for these,” do not offer them a Sam Adams Summer Ale.
3. The Key Chain
This one is much easier to execute. Just look at their key chain. If they have a bottle opener on it, you’re all set. No one ever drinks enough soda to need to carry a bottle opener around full time.
4. The Soda
Speaking of soda, bring a six pack of old school soda over as a housewarming gift. Make sure you bring bottles that have tops that will not unscrew. Then, watch carefully to see what they do next. Do they instantly go to the drawer where the bottle opener is? Do they seem familiar with it? Does it fit the contour of their hand easily from years of usage? Is there a picture of Bud Light’s dog, Spuds Mackenzie on it? They might drink beer if there is.
5. The Anything
When you are going to come over their house, call a few days before and offer to “bring anything you need, like drinks.” Make sure you stress the word “anything” over and over again. What is so great about this move is that it puts the pressure back on them. Now, they are faced with the decision to ask you to bring wine or Sprite. What will they say, what will they say? Oh the intrigue!
6. The Traveler
One of my favorite places on the planet is the Garage Cafe & Bar in Birmingham, Alabama. It’s an antique store built out of old horse stalls with a huge open courtyard that spills a sea of statues and period furniture under a blanket of white Christmas lights and dark sky. At night it’s a beautiful place to have a beer and feel poetic. If I tell you that story and the only words you hear are “bar” and “beer” then chances are we feel different about drinking. Tell a story about a place you’ve visited and see if the first reaction is, “A bar? You went to a bar? Do you think you’ll get a fold out couch bed in hell or a bunk bed when you go?”
7. The Ask
Just come on out and say, “did you know Sam Adams Summer Ale has grains of paradise in it? It’s a spice that someone felt deserved the name ‘grains of paradise.’ That’s like building a car and naming it, ‘super duper awesome bestest car in the world.’ Do you enjoy premium lager like I do?” It’s more direct but at least you won’t have to stage a fake move.
This is not about drunkenness. This is not about my friends that are alcoholics. This is not about getting hammered and pulling a “Noah.” I think things like that are clearly called referenced in the Bible. But does it say that a single drink is a sin? I read this today on a website, “There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.” And then it said, “The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine.” Which was news to me.
But then it said “1 Corinthians 5:11 says if a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.” That seemed really strong until I read the actual verse, which reads, “But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler.”
I think there’s a big difference between “drinker” and “drunkard” and I don’t like that the five other characteristics of a sinful person are completely ignored by yanking “drinker” out of context. But I could easily be wrong.
But that’s my question for the day, is a single drink a sin? Is that something International Christians in other countries argue about? Is a glass of wine labeled wrong in the Bible?
Let’s talk.
Comments
I don’t drink beer and here’s why:
http://kevinmartineau.blogspot.com/2009/03/silly-saturday-this-is-why-i-dont-drink.html
Eastern it pastor—you have hit the provebial nail on the head — it’s love problem….
So when Jesus turned the water into wine (after those gathered were “well drunk” nonetheless), he was showing his “love problem?” I had no idea! SCL: teaching me new things about Jesus everyday.
As the daughter of a recovering alcoholic, I know the damage it can do… but that’s when it’s abused, much like food, or money can do damage when abused. My friends and I will sit down and have a few every so often, because we enjoy the taste, and it’s a nice treat every once in a while. We do have two guidelines though; we never drink to get drunk, and we never drink alone.
Cheers!
Certainly we(Christians) all believe drunkenness is a sin – however, I personally believe the irresponsible consumption of alcohol is where this specific issue becomes sin. That can mean one drink, even one sip in the wrong context. (read a few stories from Paul and it is clear we are supposed to be sensitive to our surroundings) Forcing a drink on someone, or even drinking in front of someone could limit your influence in their life and I believe can be considered sin. Not obeying your parents by taking a sip? Sin. Offending someone by flaunting your freedom? Most likely, sin. Ignoring a specific call from God to abstain from alcohol because everyone else says it’s ok? Sin.
So let me be clear – the action of consuming alcohol is not sin. It becomes sin when you consume it irresponsibly; even if you are far from being drunk.
one more note…
let’s be honest – in general, drinking in America is all about getting drunk. I have had a few friends argue that people all over the world (Christians and non-christians) enjoy alcohol all the time and spend their evenings with friends at the local ‘watering hole’ yadda, yadda, yadda. MY point is that alcohol serves a different purpose in different cultures – in fact I think Europe, in general, has a greater respect for alcohol and in doing so, consumes it more responsibly.
I have no problem with Christians drinking responsibly. In fact, I’ll have an occasional glass of wine or some other “fruity drink” but I do so very rarely because alcoholism has a history with my family. But what bugs me is Christians who wear their drinking as a knotch on their belt. They brag about their “freedom” and look down their noses at people who choose not too. And let’s be real…as Darren said, in our American culture we promote getting wasted way more than we promote drinking responsibly. Like another person mentioned, when you drink, check your motives. Are you doing it because it’s just what you like or a part of your culture? Or are you doing it to be the “cool Christian” who has “freedom”?
SCL, on #6 all I noticed is that you mentioned my hood: Birmingham, AL! The Garage is awwwwesome. Come around these parts much?
This topic of conversation made me LOL because down here in the Bible belt, this argument is right up there with pre-destination and whether or not infant baptism actually ‘counts’. In the little, teeny-tiny baptist church I grew up in, if you were caught drinking alcohol in public you might as well have been a harlot.
After college my views on the subject have changed markedly, but I still wear a hat and sunglasses when I make a trip to the liquor store.
I totally agree with the PP that said something to the effect that people who must abstain are weaker. But that’s just my opinion
take it any way you like!
If it weren’t for two rather large glasses of Cabernet back in 2003, I wouldn’t have my youngest daughter.
No worries. I’m married. And my baby’s daddy is my main man. BD to my older daughter, too.
I love red wine but tend to limit it to just one glass post-two-big-glass-evening… YOWZA.
My ultra-conservative Baptist dad knows the story and loves his littlest granddaugther to pieces…
In addition to working for my church full-time, I’m also a professional DJ on the weekends (wedding, school dances, that kind of DJ, not the strip club kind). After our shows on Saturday nights, often times guys will hang out at the office, filling out paperwork, unwinding and swapping stories of how our events went. Most of the time, at least one or two guys will take some of the tip money they’ve made that night and get a six pack or twelve pack and bring it with them to share with everyone else. I’ve learned from experience that I can have one beer, and one beer only (usually because I’ve got an empty stomach by that point), or else I will become drunk, and people will notice. Because I’m a high profile DJ in the company, and because most everyone knows I’m a Christian AND that I work for a church full-time, most of them don’t have a problem with the fact that I’ll have a beer with them. Honestly, most of them are glad that I do because, as one guy said, it makes me look like I don’t have something stuck up my nether regions, but that I’m a regular guy that happens to love Jesus. I couldn’t think of a better way to describe how Christians should be viewed by unbelievers.
Isn’t there a verse in Proverbs about leaving the poor to his wine, or something? And the excuse for the babbling at the temple was not that there was no way that the apostles were drinking, but that it was still early in the morning?
I don’t know…it always seemed pretty clear to me that drinking in excess was the problem, not a drink here or there.
It amazes me that the strongest argument against drinking seems to be “don’t make your brother stumble”.
With some 6billion people in the world today, everything you do (everything) is bound to make someone stumble.
The church gets so worried about this illusion of political correctness that, rather than just living, it does nothing so as to offend no one.
Bleh, it leaves a bad taste.
So have a drink. Have a couple. Because, unless you’re talking to a frat boy, people will be more interested in what you’re saying than how many beers you’ve had.
For those who continue to do nothing that may cause a brother to stumble, I have only one request. Your cute little bumper stickers and t-shirts. They cause me to stumble. Sometimes so much so that I have a beer. Gasp. So please, for the sake of this brother, burn the paraphernalia.
im from honduras and im a christian, and we do argue about it, exactly the same as you.
All this talk about alcohol…what about food. Seems like that is even a larger elephant in the room! What say you all about gluttony and why is it nearly never addressed?
I know I’m late, but I had to weigh in. I’ve not read through all the comments so bear with me if I am repeating what someone else said…
I agree that it is about your heart and your motives. I may need that cup of coffee to get me going in the morning. I may need to watch a little tv to wind down. I may need to talk it out with a friend to stop stressing.
I realize that the difference is that alcohol in excess is mind altering and none of the above things are. There is the rub.
Anything that rules our hearts and controls us is sinful. Anything.
Often the THING is not the sin, it’s the fact that we let it have control over us and that we NEED it. It is our idol.
So, alcohol is not sin, but our need of it is.
wv: impla -”Yes, I enjoy a glass of wine or 2 on occasion, but that doesn’t impla that I’m a drunkard.”
http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=988
This link is about the argument that wine in the Bible was grape juice, but it is a great article and speaks to the topic of “Is drinking alcohol a sin?” quite well.
wv: asourn -Appalachia speak, as in “This grape was asourn.”
Ummm… I think some of these commenteers (like Mouseketeers only contemporary)are trying to steal your thunder with their long posts. As my kids would say, “Get a Chat Room!”
I’m not for or against drinking alcohol of any kind. I like to have a nice glass of wine or beer with dinner from time to time. I’ll even have a little bourbon (neat, no less) at Christmastime.
I find, however, that this question only comes up in certain cultural settings (white/Evang./N.A., for instance). And, there’s a snobbery from the beer and wine advocates: “If only ‘Christians’ would get off their high horses…” as if the church would be better off if we all threw back a beer at elders meetings.
I’ve lost good friends because I just don’t like to drink as much as they do, and they feel uncomfortable drinking around me (I was told this directly by a friend that routinely gets drunk in the name of freedom), and it seems as though the braggadocio about “I dislodged the stick from my butt, why can’t you?” is a thin veneer for “I’m not comfortable socializing without being buzzed.”
When I was invited to dinner at the house of the pastor of a Christian Reformed church in the mid-west, and was offered not just beer, but beer that the pastor had brewed himself, I knew that I had found a church home.
And those of you who say (or imply) that that the only reason to drink is to get drunk obviously have never experienced the gastronomic delights of sipping a glass of orange blossom mead that you made in your kitchen, fermented in a corner of your dining room, and aged to perfection for two years in your closet. It’s my experience that most people who say that they don’t like the taste of alcohol haven’t tasted much of the extremely wide spectrum of alcohol (often their experience is based on the swill sold by macrobreweries). It’s like saying you don’t like cheese because you hate Velveeta. I don’t think this makes me judgmental to point this out, yet I wouldn’t be surprised if a few of the commenters here will say that I’m judging their lack of drinking. Really, that’s not the goal; my goal is to introduce people to experiences that I’ve found enjoyable, just as many people will recommend a film or a cd.
P.S. The word verification that I have to type in for this comment is, appropriately (from a phonetic standpoint), “stines.”
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“Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.”
~Benjamin Franklin
As a Christian, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with drinking alcohol. If there was, why would it have been one of Jesus’ miracles? I do think alcohol should be had responsibly, but hey, enjoy it.
And it might just be me, but I’m not about to care if other Christians get upset about my enjoyment of alcohol- that’s entirely up to me.
Excellent post.
Note, by saying I don’t care if others get upset by my consumption of alcohol, I don’t mean to say that I like offending people. I mean more that others’ distaste for something won’t cause me to change my behavior, perse.
I have met a lot of really uptight Christians, and, while I love them still, I think they really need to “Get over it.” But alas, that’s me being a fleshly creature.
And someone mentioned cigars? I love cigars over a drink too. Cigars are wonderful.
To answer you, having a glass of wine is not sinful and should be done to the Glory of God, just like everything else in your life. Since we do so much that isn’t to the glory of Jesus, we are sinners. Those who knowingly act fleshly without regard for the Messiah may not actually have honestly received Him as Saviour. When a person is a new creation, they are sinning when they drink to the “buzz in their flesh” instead of to the glory of God. The “buzz in the flesh” doesn’t glorify God rather glorifies the flesh and it’s fleshy desires. The question a Christian should be most interested in is WHY DON’T YOU HEED GOD’S COMMANDS? 1 Corinthians 10:31 – Whether then you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it ALL for the glory of God. He is worth it, to me anyway, not sure about those who get drunk.
jesus’ first miracle? bartending.
’nuff said.
I have a seminary degree (Masters in theology) and still manage to host a beer website without being consumed by the scorching heat of hell. I cast aside subtleties in matters that really aren’t open to subjectivity like drinking alcohol.
Here’s my favorite method, make something with cooking wine and then ask if it is ok with them. You can ease around the question from there. Easily backing out with “Oh, all the alcohol gets cooked out.”
It’s a bit of an odd issue in Northern Ireland. Mostly, older people object to drinking, which they’re entitled to do. There’s still quite a taboo over the whole thing. However, here at uni in Scotland I’m comfortable with a couple of beers inside me. I run everything past Paul’s comment about ‘food sacrificed to idols’, i.e. Is this going to tempt (perhaps weaker) Christians here? Is this behaviour still Godly, and am I relying on God to give me the strength to stop after two or so?
Never been drunk, never tempted a brother or sister to drink.
So it’s working so far…
And one thing that’s worth bearing in mind is that Jesus launched his ministry on earth by turning water into a truly colossal amount of wine. In fact, as a thelogy student, let me quote something I came across today, discussing whether miracles prove God:
“the first miracle that he wrought,viz., that of turning water into wine at an extravagant, voluptuous wedding at Cana of Galilee, is enough to turn our stomachs against all the rest.” (Thomas Woolston, 1663-1733)
I think that’s where the condemnation of people who drink a little ultimately leads – condemnation of the God who created the grapes in the first place!
Ever read God's instructions for using the tithe of crops etc to celebrate the various feasts he initiated for the Jews? Deuteronomy 14:22-27
It's a BYO party – but someone needs to bring extra beer for the minister, and getting a bit of a buzz on, in celebration of God's goodness actually seems to be the point.
I used to get drunk to impress people, and realised I often ended up doing or saying things I regretted. Now I drink because a good beer or wine with the right friends and/or meal can actually enhance the time and be part of celebrating life and God's goodness together.
And if I hear one more self righteous temperance snob say; "People who only drink now and then usually drink more now than they did then." I might have to hurt someone.
Christians Like trite cliche sayings – a lot; far too much; to a criminal degree. They don't make you sound clever, they make you sound like a self righteous prick. Please stop now. All of you. you know who you are – you aren't perfect, just forgiven; you're on the road to God's place; you know God, so you know Hope….aaaaarggghhh cheesy Bumper sticker theology is enough to drive me to drink!