#436. Arguing about giving from gross or net.
Nov 11th by JonMoney is one of those topics that tend to stir up a million questions. Am I supposed to give to God from my gross income or my net income? What about gifts? If someone gives me $100 for my birthday, do I give 10% of that to God or is it only money I’ve received from work? What about our tax return? Do you tithe on that? What if I’m in the jungle and I find a red ruby in a cave and flee from natives that are shooting at me with frog poison tipped blow darts, do I have to chisel out 10% of that ruby for the offering plate if I escape with my life?
Why do we get flooded with questions like that when we think about money? I’m not sure, but I think it’s because the old cliché, “money talks” is true. Or rather, “money lies” and we listen to the things it says. When we talk about it, we’re rarely talking about a piece of paper and usually talking about other things. When we get close to it, when we think about tithing or giving or financial strain, is starts to chatter like a parakeet you bought without consulting your wife first because you had one as a kid that used to land on your finger and do funny things but this one hates life and itself and you and just will not stop squawking bird obscenities a million times a day. Hypothetically speaking of course.
So instead of really hearing what’s going on, what’s really being said, we listen to money. Here’s a snapshot of some conversations my wife and I have had about money in the past:
My wife says:
“I think we need to spend some time going over our budget again. We might need to adjust a few things.”
I hear:
“You are failing as a provider and a father and a husband. In fact, I’m pretty sure if you weren’t so short we’d be able to reach more money in the money trees.“
I say:
“I don’t like looking at the budget. I find it really confusing.”
My wife hears:
“I’m abandoning you on this issue. You’re the fun police. My job is to spend the money and enjoy myself as if there’s no limit. Your job is to control all the money and then to tell me how much we can’t spend and be the financial killjoy in our house.”
Did we say those things? Not really, but money loves filling in the blanks and it hates to stay quiet. It’s constantly whispering things like:
“I’m the best way to know your real value.“
“If you had enough of me, you’d never worry again.“
“If you were a better Christian, it’d never be hard to give me away.“
“In order to build a better ‘later,’ you have to sacrifice family time ‘now,’ but it will all work out.”
“Once you earn enough, you’ll be able to really start giving.”
Chatter, chatter, chatter. Squawk, squawk, squawk.
The simple solution, which doesn’t feel that easy sometimes, is to ask, “Who am I listening to right now? Money or God?” Because although I don’t think money is inherently a bad thing, it’s a horrible God.
So today’s question is this:
What ridiculous things does your money try to tell you?
Comments
How much of our money does God want? All of it.
We are to spend our money in responsible ways, ways that glorify Him – fun glorifies God, enjoyable things glorify God, paying your rent on time glorifies God, not in excess. Compassion and worthy causes glorify God.
10% tithing is a guideline for supporting temples and His priests.
Who thinks that God wants no more that one 1/10 of our total net resources? Come on is there anything more worth spending on?
It’s funny…I think I just heard my money say,
“Don’t listen to Jon. Go charge that flat screen you’ve been looking at for months…that you can’t afford…because your husband is too short!”
STUPID MONEY!!AAaaarghhh
A wise friend once told me, “Money, it is just the green stuff they give you for going to work”.
It made me laugh and feel silly for always being stressed about money. I realized then I had been living my life like I played monopoly as a kid–I hid the money under the board so others can’t take it from me.
My life is bigger than a board game and my God is a much better banker. So now I give Him the green stuff they give me for going to work. Somehow there is always enough of the paper to go around.
“You must have that sweater RIGHT NOW!!”
money says: “if you save me now, I will take care of you when you retire.”
i’d love everyone’s oh-so-wise feedback on questions I have about saving for future retirement. I’m 24 and I have to start saving?? WHAT??? I don’t know about this…
please check out my blog: http://www.hthrttn.blogspot.com/
“i can give you freedom”
“i’m yours.”
“i am enough for you”
and
“you deserve a treat.”
are the big ones that catch me often!
Actually, it stopped speaking to me ages ago. We’ve parted ways and therefore I’m out of hearing range of it. If I ever get more then two pence I’ll let you know what it says. As for the two pence, plenty of people have spoken on their behalf. If I had a pound for everytime I heard someone giving their two pence worth I’d be really rich. Probably have ten quid by now. Hmmm, maybe I should have said 100 pounds for every time. Really, why stop there? I could change it to ten thousand pounds and wow, I’d have a lot of money.
Well, if there really was someone to give me the ten thousand pounds each time someone said that. ARE there people who do that? Go around and give you money for each time something random happens like that? Because I’d like one of those kind of friends. In fact, how much does that person get paid? I could do that. I’d be good at that. I could easily work my way up the ladder in a job like that. Then, I could have money again and I could start to listen to it.
Alas, but no. Not presently. No money… so it doesn’t talk to me. There are other voices I hear on occasion though. When will you be posting about those?
Preach that word, brother!
I am writing a paper over the topic of what Jesus said about money right now for my New Testament class in seminary and am shocked at what I’m finding. Jesus spoke more about money and possessions than any other topic in the Gospels. More than Heaven/Hell, more than loving people, even more than ‘finding God’s will’. Wow. That says something in and of itself.
Money is such an easy and deceptive idol because, like fire, it is necessary for survival, but if you’re not careful, you’ll get burned.
Aristotle argued that all of life is lived out of the pursuit of happiness. You don’t have to look very far in the American constitution before you can hear this echoed in the very foundation of why our country came into existence. Money claims to either be or be the means to, that happiness.
We suffer from the disease of consumerism in Western culture, America in particular. The next time you have the telly on, take a minute to objectively view what every commercial is really selling you. It is not the product that they flash on the screen at the end of the 30-second spot, but the promise of happiness and fulfillment.
This is a deep and personal struggle for my own life. One thing I would like to challenge anyone reading this would be to look at your giving and attitude toward giving as a thermometer that measures your spiritual temperature. See what your attitude is. How does it make you feel when you write that check/drop that Jackson/pass the plate empty?
It is much more than just about money. It is about trust. It is about sacrifice. It is about God.
Helen/Bob, that was oh, so funny. Thanks!
money tells me lately that i am worth something in my marriage, because i am contributing concretely to our life together.
never mind that i also make concrete contributions in the form of laundry, dinner, dishes, dusting, and clean floors. my financial contribution seems to be the only one that matters.
when i listen to God, He asks me, “what if I took away your job and asked you to be completely dependent on your husband as the breadwinner, like how I want you to be completely dependent on Me?” and that really scares me.
me and God, we have a long way to go on the money issue. it’s a struggle. we’re working on it.
Excellent post! Love the conversation with your wife!
Money tells me I will never be worth anything because do not have enough of it. Money tells me I will never be happy until I get more. Money tells me that it is the key that i will never own.
Money frequently tells me that it is going on strike, and is going to take this paycheck off. And I believe it. Sometimes it actually does take a month off. That’s no fun. the thing is, even in months off I have enough to eat.
I don’t have anything to add to the lies money tells, but your dissection of money conversations with your wife is SPOT ON what goes down in our house. Great insight.
it tries to sell me “security”
God tells me “Hey, it’s mine anyway….”
Shoot, What DOESN’T money try and tell me. If i’m feeling humble it tells me, “think of how many people you could help with more money”, if i’m feeling proud money says, “Good job! Now let’s get more”.
Money has a deceit for all people at all times.
Also, I have always tithed on the gross. Also, one of the best challenges on tithing I have heard is that “10% is a great place to start, not the final destination”
My money tries to tell me that if I’m already giving my ten percent then I can’t buy a coat for a child in need this winter b/c it’s not in the budget. Sheesh!!!
Money tells me
“Its fine, you can pull out your debit card just this one more time”
“Its only a little bit so it doesn’t matter”
“You can afford it, its such a good deal afterall”
“you already have 3 of those but you really need another one!”
“That bank statement wasn’t telling the truth. you really aren’t going backwards financially”
I heard some awesome quotes on this topic by Dominic Steele:
“if you created it, it is less than you” (and not worth worshipping)
-that humans were created in the image of God and therefore materialism- putting stuff first is WRONG and totally nonsensical.
I know it might sound blindingly obvious but it’s helpful for me to be reminded of these things. I shouldn’t worry about spending money on people because they are so much more worth it!
I think you overheard a conversation about money at my house before you wrote this post. Did you bug me when you were in town? I wouldn’t put it past you for good material… Oh, and Kendra delivered my bumper sticker today. You’ve upped my coolness factor a ton!
Mine tells me:
If you found a job that gave you more of ME, you could stop working 60 hours a week. Then you could get to the Y and exercise, lose weight, and then maybe a man will find you attractive and you’ll finally find a husband.
I think the Bible’s pretty clear that we’re to give the “firstfruits”—i.e. that the tithe is off the gross not the net.
Now, don’t ask me if we do this…..
Money tells me that I have to be able to live comfortably. That I have to have new things.
God tells me that I need to put Him first and be willing to live and give sacrificially, even with monetary and material things.
My money says “Gee, if you only could make more of me you could start giving me away to support worthy causes, instead of finding other ways to help.”
Somehow, my money tells me that giving out of my wallet is better and easier than giving out of my time. I should ask God which method to use instead of listening to my money.
ho hummm…I just don’t give my money woes to God enough. This is an especially hard day for that. Thanks for the post.
As a newlywed and a college student, money has taken over as a top priority right now! My husband and I both tithe on our gross income, and to be honest sometimes it is hard to see that much money leaving. I am always reminded what my uncle told me though when I was younger, “It’s not your money, it has always been Gods. He has blessed you to have a job, a roof over your head, and food on your table, so give faithfully. You will recieve his blessings.” I hope that one day we will be able to give more than 10% but until then we will continue to be faithful in our giving and thank God for his blessings!
It tells me if I just had a little bit more then things would be fine and I’d eliminate 87% of the stress in my life.
On the topic of tithing I recently had a friend pose to me an interesting view point. We were talking over the whole gross/net thing and she says, “people only use their net income when it’s convenient for them, such as tithing. we never put our net income on a loan application. yet, when we want to give to God, people wanna go net.” I have to say, it made a definite impression.
So…I haven’t read all of the rest of the smarty-pants, ultra-spiritual, oft-cliche answers, yet….promise I will, but…. My money talks and it always says “GOODBYE!!!!”
My money says that if I had some more of it, I would be less embarrassed of where I live and what I drive. I would feel secure. I would have the power to make others envious of me.
My God says that when I know what it is to want, I will be more effective to minister to those in need. And that ALL of my security and ALL of my identity rests in Him and Him only.
I talked about money today too!
I am loving these comments. Thanks to everybody who has posted so far!
Money tells me that people who have a lot of it can afford to pretend that they step out in faith easier. A lot of rich people take a lot of chances and claim they have faith when they really know that they only took the chance because the knew their money could get them out of the mess either way.
money tells me to go get a job that pays, instead of being a full-time volunteer and trusting God to provide. But God tells me that He will provide all my needs ‘do not worry about tomorrow’- even when the bank accounts says zero, and I have no idea where any money can come from- and guess what? God always come through- it might take longer than I would like, but He comes through.
Money tries to tell me that it will take care of me. It won’t necessarily make me happy, but I can do more, BE more, if I have just a little bit more of it.
It tries to tell me that its what my family needs to be secure, to buy a house we all fit into, a car big enough to fit all of us into.
It makes me work full time when I’d rather be home, creating, dwelling in the Word of God, making a home for my family.
It also says that if I’m not giving to the church I have no ‘right’ to be there. Unfortunately, that thought is reinforced by my church when their introduction to the latest capital campaign lasts five (5) Sundays and parades around people (in the form of ‘testimonies’) who make six or seven figures, telling the congregation that 10% isn’t enough, and how God has blessed them because they give at least 20%. Can anyone say, ‘prosperity gospel?’
You’re right, Jon, it makes a terrible God. Thank you for this.
Money tells me, “McDonalds sweet tea is only a dollar. Who cares if you buy one a day for 6 straight months!”
dropping the sweet tea habit is going to be tough…
Ever heard Steve Taylor’s song “Cash Cow”? (Ever written a post on Steve Taylor?)
Money tells me: “I deserve better!”
The word verifications on this blog are always ridiculously awesome. Today’s is “cofeater.”
Just a little side note IMHO:
If you tithe on gross then you don’t have to tithe on a tax return, because you already tithed on that money. Sometimes you may be called to tithe on it anyway, or really then it would be an offering.
Oh, I don’t let money talk to me anymore, it has nothing positive to say anyway, why listen?
that 5 bucks for a cup of coffee isn’t really all that bad — coffee — 5 bucks — what about that is good??? lots of other deep stuff, but definitely this 1!!
….and this on the heals of a 3 way telephone call with my wife’s side of the family trying to decide how much money we want to “swap” for Christmas gifts for each other.
that i need it more than anything else.
If someone knows how I can write a check directly to GOD himself and not some tax exempt religious crusade please let me know