Remix – #34. Subtly finding out if you drink beer too.
Jul 15th by Jon
I am not a great debater. If you asked me to come to a debate, I would ask, “Is there an eagle on the panel?” You would reply no, and then I would decline your offer. I am OK with that, the goal of this site is not to debate or make my argument do verbal push ups and eat protein shakes until it gets strong enough to beat up your argument. The goal of the site is to instigate, to give you a hammer carved of pure sarcasm with which you can smash up old thoughts, ideas you accidentally inherited from your parents and all the other silly stuff we deal with as Christians.
That’s why I had to remix the post I wrote about alcohol.
This has been a fun, crazy couple of days at the SCL. (I call it “the SCL” because that sounds like “The OC” which makes me feel cooler than I really am.) Last week, the post about whether tattoos are sinful opened up a whole can of brightly colored worms. And then a few days later the post about the show, Family Guy, did the same thing. And I think that’s good.
I don’t have all the right answers. I wish I did, because I would grind them up and make a spray called “Cool Answer Cologne.” Then when your friend was confused about something you could just squirt them in the face until they understood. Or parents could mist their teenagers while they slept at night to make sure they did not get a cheek piercing. (which I am cool with)
But until I develop that cologne, I think it’s great we can disagree and argue and teach each other. And hopefully today’s post will give us all the opportunity to do that. Because as much as I like blogs where the writer debates you, that’s not what I’m here to do. I’m here to instigate.
Remix:
I think that there are a few divisional issues when it comes to the Christian faith in the year 2008. Some are big and deep, some are small and shallow, but all of them are ideas that we end up taking sides on. One of my favorite, is alcohol.
If you are a Christian that drinks a beer after mowing the lawn or has a glass of red wine, there is a tricky little game you play when you meet new Christians. It’s called “do these Christians drink too?”
The reason you play this game is not that you’re afraid of looking bad in front of people that don’t. I have friends that choose not to drink and they never get on me about having beer. They never try to choke hold for drinking wine. Not at all. But there are people that will leg drop you if they find out you drink. People that will say things like, “I really think all the bad things that happened to you are God punishing you for starting to drink wine.” (Real quote from a friend)
And there’s never been a good way to smoke these people out. A guide, as it were, to find out who is going to punch you in the face with judgmentalism and who is going to love you where you are regardless of what you are drinking. Until now.
This is the official Stuff Christians Like Subtle Guide to finding out if another Christian drinks too. (The OSCLSGTFOIACDT if you will)
1. The Garage Poke
Studies show that 78% of all Christians hide their beer in the garage when people they don’t know that well come over. OK, I conducted the study and the research methods are suspect at best, but trust me, it’s true. Make up an excuse to go to the garage and then poke around. Don’t snoop. Snooping is what the lady on “Murder She Wrote” did. Just poke, there’s a huge difference.
2. The Move
This one takes commitment. You either have to help them move or move yourself. Is selling your house and buying a new one worth discovering if your friend drinks too? Depends, how long are you expecting to know them? What, you don’t want to invest in them by faking a move across town? I guess you and I are different. The key is to see what type of moving boxes they use. People often go to liquor stores to get boxes when they move. Ask about the wine boxes they are using. If they say, “I had to go to that pit of hell liquor store for these,” do not offer them a Sam Adams Summer Ale.
3. The Key Chain
This one is much easier to execute. Just look at their key chain. If they have a bottle opener on it, you’re all set. No one ever drinks enough soda to need to carry a bottle opener around full time.
4. The Soda
Speaking of soda, bring a six pack of old school soda over as a housewarming gift. Make sure you bring bottles that have tops that will not unscrew. Then, watch carefully to see what they do next. Do they instantly go to the drawer where the bottle opener is? Do they seem familiar with it? Does it fit the contour of their hand easily from years of usage? Is there a picture of Bud Light’s dog, Spuds Mackenzie on it? They might drink beer if there is.
5. The Anything
When you are going to come over their house, call a few days before and offer to “bring anything you need, like drinks.” Make sure you stress the word “anything” over and over again. What is so great about this move is that it puts the pressure back on them. Now, they are faced with the decision to ask you to bring wine or Sprite. What will they say, what will they say? Oh the intrigue!
6. The Traveler
One of my favorite places on the planet is the Garage Cafe & Bar in Birmingham, Alabama. It’s an antique store built out of old horse stalls with a huge open courtyard that spills a sea of statues and period furniture under a blanket of white Christmas lights and dark sky. At night it’s a beautiful place to have a beer and feel poetic. If I tell you that story and the only words you hear are “bar” and “beer” then chances are we feel different about drinking. Tell a story about a place you’ve visited and see if the first reaction is, “A bar? You went to a bar? Do you think you’ll get a fold out couch bed in hell or a bunk bed when you go?”
7. The Ask
Just come on out and say, “did you know Sam Adams Summer Ale has grains of paradise in it? It’s a spice that someone felt deserved the name ‘grains of paradise.’ That’s like building a car and naming it, ‘super duper awesome bestest car in the world.’ Do you enjoy premium lager like I do?” It’s more direct but at least you won’t have to stage a fake move.
This is not about drunkenness. This is not about my friends that are alcoholics. This is not about getting hammered and pulling a “Noah.” I think things like that are clearly called referenced in the Bible. But does it say that a single drink is a sin? I read this today on a website, “There is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.” And then it said, “The Bible does teach total abstinence from alcohol. Both the main Hebrew word for wine and the Greek word for wine can mean either fermented grape juice or intoxicating wine.” Which was news to me.
But then it said “1 Corinthians 5:11 says if a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.” That seemed really strong until I read the actual verse, which reads, “But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler.”
I think there’s a big difference between “drinker” and “drunkard” and I don’t like that the five other characteristics of a sinful person are completely ignored by yanking “drinker” out of context. But I could easily be wrong.
But that’s my question for the day, is a single drink a sin? Is that something International Christians in other countries argue about? Is a glass of wine labeled wrong in the Bible?
Let’s talk.
Comments
My post earlier was light hearted, but seriously I was convicted of this because I used have one (only one) drink with friends pretty regularly. And then one night, I found myself looking forward to the drinks just a little. That scared me. So from that point on, I determined not to drink like that anymore. Now I may have half a glass of wine once in a blue moon for a special occasion or just a sip of a friend’s margarita. But no more ordering drinks for me. Also, I came to realize that I would never ever want my freedom to cause someone else to think Christians are hypocrites or cause another brother or sister to stumble. So just remember that drinking is OK but always check your heart and remember who you may be around.
I hope it’s not a sin…. Young’s Double Chocolate Stout is a near spiritual experience. Come on people, let’s get over the small stuff so we can focus on the big stuff huh?
Jeff,
I agree that we should not spend a lot of time debating the “small stuff”. However, a lot of the “small stuff” discussions on SCL lately has really caused me to dig into my Bible and question what I believe and why. And sometimes that leads me to thinking about the “big stuff”. And if I can grow in my faith from a discussion about drinking or tattoos, then I don’t see a problem talking about it.
Besides, what is small stuff and what is big stuff anyway? That’s another gray area that we can discuss.
(Sorry to single you out because I know a lot of other people have made the same comment.)
Abita Turbodog
Stella Artois
I just thought the comments needed a few choice beers.
Obviously I can’t real all 156 comments before me, so this may have been said already…
I believe it would be nearly a sin for me not to consume alcoholic beverages. As per Judg. 9:13, it makes God happy.
And besides…the bit over 1800 years of church history prior to the fundamentalist movement cherished the bubbly stuff. So I’ll bypass all the detective work and just bust out a brewski to break the ice.
I’ve been thinking about this topic ever since I read the post yesterday. It really got the wheels churning for me. I have also been reading through a lot of the comments and I think everyone has made some excellent points.
I want to retract a statement I made yesterday in a comment that said something like “it’s awkward to be the one person not drinking and it might make your buddies, who are drinking, feel judged.” Honestly, I don’t know why I said that, because it doesn’t reflect what I truly believe and feel we are called to do as Christians. It’s not okay to drink for the sole purpose of not wanting to offend anyone or have them feel like you are judging them. As Christians, we are set to a higher standard, and I don’t think we can justify giving into something just to spare the feelings of someone else.
I also think that those of us who do think it’s okay to drink need to be especially careful about how we come across on this topic. We gripe about Christians who don’t drink and claim that they’re being too judgmental, when we often come off the same way. I have seen several comments on here that say something like “Get your panties out of a wad and realize that drinking isn’t a sin!” I don’t think that’s the right attitude, either.
It’s so funny, after reading this post, I got together with a friend for our usual Tuesday night hang out time. She was telling me about roommate issues she’s having, and it centered around alcohol. She used to be okay with drinking, but upon examining the motives behind the drinking and the way these other Christians were making alcohol the purpose and center of their fellowship, she decided that she wasn’t okay with it anymore. Upon discussing this with her roommates, and declining an invitation to a party where there would be drinking, she said that they were angry at her for changing her mind and not coming to the party and for not being okay with drinking anymore. She now feels alienated from HER OWN group of friends, simply because she has made the PERSONAL decision not to drink.
Unfortunately, as Christians, we get so caught up on these little issues, and we let them tear away at our relationships with other people, when really we should be reaching out, supporting our brothers and sisters, and doing our best to become the ONE body of Christ that we are called to be. I have realized, as a result of this post (Thank you, Jon) that the people who don’t drink have their reasons and convictions, and who am I to question that or condemn that or take that lightly? I have also realized moreso than before just how sticky this whole drinking issue can be, and how much we really do need to consider it before we partake in any kind of alcoholic beverage. Just some more thoughts I had.
I love the discussion and appreciate your boldness in covering some of these hot-button issues of Christianity.
Too many people in our church have seen the ugly side drinking. Alcohol is associated with too much drama for us to merrily sip a cerveza with other social drinkers.
I don’t refrain from drinking to keep others from stumbling. I choose not to drink in order to keep that part of my ministry life uncomplicated.
allison,
wow, side hug for that excellent comment!
alyson,
pardon me for being so frank, but you sound a bit immature. if you’re going to be in the ministry, you might want to rethink the screw-you-i’ll-do-what-i-want attitude.
Why are we sometimes so quick to recognize the ugly side of drinking and avoid all drinking, but so slow to react this way to other activities that can be destructive and/or addictive?
The ugly side of consumerism is rampant in the west, with marriages wrecked, parents’ relationships with their kids nonexistent or strained, due to an addiction to a certain lifestyle, unnecessary and unwise use of credit, overspending, living at the very top of (or above) our means, workaholism or keeping a career that takes one away from the family and makes one miserable but which “must” be kept b/c we can’t imagine downsizing our lifestyle, etc. Yet how often do we hear consumerism decried in conservative Christian circles? In my experience the answer is: some; a little more than we used to. But not nearly enough. Nor do we hear (very many) calls to avoid a capitalistic system altogether just because consumer capitalism can have a very ugly and destructive side.
That’s not really a pro-drinking or anti-buying-anything argument. Nor am I equating overconption with overdrinking as if they are exactly the same, with exactly the same consequences. Just some musings.
When I went on a mission trip to Italy, we would go to the bar and talk about Jesus after having a Bible study. This is the common thing to do there. In fact, the Italians often asked us, “Why is it that Americans feel the need to get drunk if they have a drink?”
Just like any other thing in life, I think that drinking can become sinful if you do not do it in moderation. However, it’s the same as any other addiction or sin issue- there is such a fine line to be walked in the Christian life…
Hallelujah!!
I used to be a teetotaller (sp?), but now I’ve relaxed–I have two toddlers right smack in the middle of the terrible two’s, and sometimes momma just needs a drink.
I used to have a great big stick placed strategically where a stick shouldn’t be, but priase God, Jesus changed me into someone that just doesn’t care anymore.
Seriously, nothing helps me priase Jesus more than a good glass of wine and a nice PG-13 chick flick. I’m so thankful for the little things.
Moderation in all things that are beneficial, except for enjoying the love of God. Get drunk on that, your wine will taste better
as you all said, drinking is not a sin. i choose not to drink when i hang out with my college, non christian friends because i want them to know that Jesus makes me different from them. if there’s wine in my christian friend’s wedding, i will drink it. and that does not make a hypocrite, i just think that there are certain situations that require me to say no to alcohol.
I’ve got one more for you….
Collect the wine corks from bottles you’ve consumed with your spouse over the 20 years you’ve been together and display them PROUDLY in a HUGE bowl on the dining room table…and use them to make a fun wreath…and a bulletin board.
Heh, nobody has to ask me.
Non-believers often do find Christians who drink hypocritical. I stopped drinking altogether a few years ago and it was all about the whole not-causing-your-brother-to-stumble bit.
Although I consider myself a young Christian of only about a decade, I am in my late 30s and others consider me a strong one. I am very open about my faith and share it with anyone who will let me. I teach freshmen at a huge party school and alcohol is a big part of many of their lives. So if they see me, the well-known strong Christian, with a beer at a BBQ or with a glass of wine at a dinner, they assume that I condone drinking, whether it’s social drinking or just kicking back. The problem is, I’m grown. I can handle one or two. When I was 18 (and when I was 25) I drank until I couldn’t drink anymore. I don’t want to encourage that behavior the students at my school, who lose classmates EVERY YEAR to alcohol.
A good way to avoid them believing I am judging them is to tell them of my testimony when they find out I don’t drink. “I don’t drink. But I drank enough in high school and college to last you a couple of lifetimes. I’m lucky to be alive.” That leaves them wanting to know more.
Having a Mike’s right now, actually. Thanks for talking about this. It’s nice to see so many people getting past this.
Cheers indeed
wow…this one spawned the most dramatic slew of comments i have ever encountered. i abhor legalism. i love the world God provided (note that i didn’t use grammar’s middle finger even though i haven’t used capital letters thus far). seriously, we are meant to enjoy art and music and nature and earth whilst loving the Lord. i simply detest the concept of “do’s” and “don’ts”. what about morality and God’s word?
I wonder if God had His hands in the making of wheat beer…
Don’t sweat it. I believe there is nothing wrong with it every once in a while, though it COULD be the product of something deeper for some people at some times, to be sure. I know there have been amazing conversations about salvation, love, glory, and peace over a pint. A few of my buddies and I are actually doing a little home-brewing/guy’s “small group”. What a great way to experience community, friendship, and being normal ‘ol guys who love God.
Cheers!
Okay, okay…I get it. Some folks enjoy a brewskie & don't over-do it.
*Nowwww…do a thought provoking SCL post on "Subtly Finding Out If You Smoke, Too".
[Do Xians enjoy smoking & drinking ?]
campman62.wordpress.com
In the Old Testament, God commanded Israel to drink wine and other fermented beverages as part of their worship celebration in Jerusalem.
Deuteronomy 14:26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, WINE or OTHER FERMENTED DRINK (aka beer), or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice. (NIV)
Anon,
So is that why you drink? As part of an Old Testament worship ritual?
I read the original post (when I discovered SCL in April, I read all the archives, and have read everything ever since…), yet can’t seem to remember it. Which is funny, since this is a topic that bugs me too. As you stated, drinking is fine. It’s getting drunk that is the problem. And certainly, if you never try any alcohol, you will never risk getting addicted, but that doesn’t mean those of us who love a margarita with a steak dinner have to ask forgiveness for it.
I actually think that there are some instances where drinking (not getting drunk) is a better witness than not. I have a friend in the Navy who used to not drink beer. He didn’t particularly care for it. But when an unsaved friend at work would say, “Hey, we’re going out to the bar to grab a few beers. Do you want to come?” if he said no, they got all awkward like, “Oh yeah, you’re a Christian.” So, he basically got himself to like beer (sort of like I’ve been doing with coffee, so I can fit in with other church people ;o) ), and now he can hang out with those guys without them feeling like he’s judging them as he sits there watching them chug a bottle of frothy hell juice. It’s opened up a lot of great conversations.
And for the record, I used to be one of those who did the whole raised eyebrows, audible gasp thing when I found out someone I knew drank. Of course, that was all before I was legal. Hehe. My parents were raised Baptist and never drank. My mom has recently begun to enjoy a glass of wine when out with friends, but my dad still abstains and will argue for never trying a sip.
As for telling who drinks and who doesn’t, you can pretty much just ask if they’re Baptist. LOL. I like to pick on Baptists. It’s fun. Although, your ways to find out made me laugh, as I remember when my husband and I found out our former boss at a large Christian organization was an Aerosmith fan, like we are. That was a great moment.
And finally, to wrap up this huge comment, I would like to say that I don’t really see hiding your beer in the garage, or putting it somewhere ultra-conservatives won’t see it, as a bad thing. After all, by doing so you are keeping them from stumbling. And that’s a good thing.
Oh, yes, and also? Thank you for ranting a bit about taking those verses out of context. That is one of my biggest pet peeves, even when done for noble reasons. (E.g., people using Jeremiah 29:11 as a promise to encourage themselves, when, unless they’re Jewish, it isn’t about/to them.) Typically when nonChristians quote the Bible to throw it in our faces, they take it out of context. You’d think this would bother Christians enough that we’d stop doing it ourselves, but I have heard SO many topical sermons where the pastor just yanked a verse bloody and screaming out of context to suit his topic. Sure, his topic may be biblical, and what he says that verse means may also be biblical, but if his usage of the verse is not what the author intended it for when he wrote it, then it is not God’s Word. Does that make sense? Anyway, obviously this really bothers me. Of course, it bothers me when anyone is quoted out of context, so it makes sense that what I believe is the actual Word of God being misquoted drives me up the wall.
wow! This one has a lot of posts! I agree that having one drink is not technically a “sin.” However, since drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God, I don’t want to be anywhere near the line when the trumpet sounds! Know what I mean? Separation from God for an eternity is certainly not worth risking for a drink!
I’m wondering how much of a stickler Jesus was about drunkenness if he made gallons of awesome wine at the wedding AFTER all of the cheap stuff ran out. I doubt he was going around making sure everyone only had ‘one drink’.
Personally, I don’t drink. Not even a little bit. But I accept and expect people my age to drink and I’m totally cool with that. Usually I’m the one driving to the bar.
I do drink beer but for the taste, much like someone who likes fine food. Unless you can show me in the Bible where it says a Christian must not drink, leave it alone. Don’t show me a verse that mentions “drunk” or “drunkard”. That’s not what I’m talking about. I enjoy a good beer most every evening. “A” beer doesn’t cause me to become drunk. I just love the taste. If you want to preach to me anything, you better back it up with Scripture. That’s my guide. I’m not above learning, just show me the verse.
I do drink beer but for the taste, much like someone who likes fine food. Unless you can show me in the Bible where it says a Christian must not drink, leave it alone. Don’t show me a verse that mentions “drunk” or “drunkard”. That’s not what I’m talking about. I enjoy a good beer most every evening. “A” beer doesn’t cause me to become drunk. I just love the taste. If you want to preach to me anything, you better back it up with Scripture. That’s my guide. I’m not above learning, just show me the verse.
Just discovered this site today and love that this was the most recent post. Didn’t read all of the comments, but I did want to respond to one thing:
“Non-believers often do find Christians who drink hypocritical.”
I rarely see this to be the case. What most non-Christians know about the Bible and Christianity is that we are supposed to be kind to others and respect people and help the poor. So a non-Christian is much more likely to look at a pastor who drives a Corvette as hypocritical, or someone who is arrogant and mean… in fact, most of the non-Christians I interact with wouldn’t think twice about anyone having a drink. The people who get *most* offended about a Christian drinking…. is other Christians. And quite honestly, I don’t care what they think.
At least my beer doesn’t have the “yeast of the Pharisees” in it.
Quoth someone: “I don’t have a problem with other Christians drinking occasionally but (like a few others have mentioned) I find it weird when they become all defensive about it. That makes me think they are feeling guilty.”
Guilty? No.
Defensive, maybe. But maybe that’s because Pharisaism is offensive.
I daresay you’d be offended if a brother said to you:
“The Bible is clear that you should not adorn yourself with jewelry, nice haircuts and fine clothes. Besides, you should be spending your money on something else. And furthermore, wouldn’t your witness be much more effective if you demonstrated how different you were from your neighbors by wearing only plain apparel? You’re clearly in sin, and your rebellion against my perspective is leading both Christians and non-Christians into sin, possibly damnation.”
At the very least, you’d be justifiably annoyed. And you’d probably protest, “Um, there are lots of instances in the Bible where people wear jewelry. And what I give to the Lord is between me, my spouse and my church. And no, I don’t think that my witness would be more effective if I made the point to express my sense of piety and moral superiority through external displays of mock humility.”
Perhaps the person would respond, “Well, ‘jewelry’ is a hard word to define, and when the bible says ‘gold’ it really means ‘element,’ which is another way of saying ‘soil.’ And what’s the benefit of wearing jewelry? And if you buy one ring, you’re more likely to become addicted to materialism and shopping. And what happens if another non-believer sees you coming out of a jewelry store? They won’t know if you went in to have your watch fixed or to buy a 10 carat ring…”
At which point, you’d probably go, “Whaaa?!! Now you’re really off the reservation here. Where do you get off twisting scripture to tell me what I’m doing is a sin, especially when it’s clear to me that many great men and women of faith wore jewelry. Perhaps you’re not the safest person for me to ‘fellowship’ with…”
At which point, your non-believing neighbors would look at both of you quizzically, roll their eyes and judge both of you as irredeemably irrelevant.
And that would be a pity.
The facts seem clear to me. The Bible does not condemn drinking or drinkers. Jesus made wine. Real wine. He also drank wine. Real, alcoholic wine. And he served it to people at a wedding. People who had already had plenty to drink — so much so, that they would have accepted cheap wine and not known the difference.
If you really think that it’s a sin to drink, you should probably find a new religion, one that doesn’t have a “drunkard and a glutton” as its center.
As far as “the benefit” of drinking? Aside from the clear health benefits, it tastes good. What are the benefits of wearing jewelry? It looks good.
Clearly, there’s a point at which both consumption of alcohol and “adornment with finery” becomes a sin. If you’re concerned that you can’t navigate that path, please don’t drink. And don’t buy jewelry.
But don’t accuse me of sinning because I don’t have a problem with a little bit of either.
And before we get too far on the “weaker brother” topic, I should point out that Paul never intended to create a “weaker brother card” that supposedly mature Christians can pull out any time they want to assert their moral superiority over their fellow believers.
Anyway. I’ve rambled. And I’ve come across as a little more angry than I had intended. But the yeast of the Pharisees is far more addictive and dangerous than the yeast that makes my beer so yummy.
I’m also late to this discussion, but I have a few questions.
To those who are concerned about being a stumbling block, does this mean that you believe that Jesus was being a/creating a stumbling block to others when he drank?
I challenge those who believe that there is no good that comes from drinking alcohol to consider why Jesus did it, then.
If drinking is being part of the world instead of set apart, then isn’t Jesus tainting himself with worldliness when he creates it (to get along? crowd pleasing?) or drinks it?
Why would God command something like the drinking of wine for Jewish holidays and commemorations if all alcohol consumption was sinful?
How could Jesus lift the cup at the Last Supper and declare it his blood which we should partake of, if wine is sinful?
I do have a problem with Christians who call drinking a sin. It is not. It is clearly and demonstrably not a sin from scripture, and the near universal tradition of the church. It is only the recent teetotaler movement, mostly in the US that seems to think this way. This is an innovation and a dangerous one, because it seeks to create a category of sin that God did not.
If someone chooses not to drink, for whatever reason, I have no problem with that. My husband doesn’t drink, though he has no problem with other people doing so. We allow our children, who are under 21, to take sips of wine, and they partake of the Eucharist fully. At parties at our home, if the parents are present and allow their children a drink, we don’t worry about it. We won’t serve it to minors other than our children, or provide it for minors without their parents present, permission and the parents actually giving it to them.
If a church decides they think it is a good spiritual discipline to refrain from wine (as some communities refrain from marriage or material things, etc), then I have no problem with it. I won’t be joining them any time soon, but I have no problem with it. It is the declaring something good to be a sin. It is the declaring something not sinful a sin. That I have a huge problem with.
Great Blog! Love the comments.
Try http://christianbeerconnoisseur.wordpress.com/ for more of the same.
Drink on (in moderation”
John
I am so glad you dropped a reference to Sam Adams Summer Ale. Too bad it was just seasonal.
I drink about twice a year on camping trips. This year I have probably doubled that due to different business trips. So, I guess according to teetotalers, I’m going to hell.
I recently wrote a blog post about one of my trips that included some of the new beers that I tried. One of my friends wrote back and said, “I didn’t know you were a drinker. (For the record, I’m not).”
I thought it was pretty funny. I read his blog about a day later and he had just volunteered a day for the local Habitat for Humanity (very worth while charity). This is a guy that probably hasn’t picked up a hammer too many times in his life, so I was pretty impressed when he told me all that he had done. So, I wrote back saying, “Wow. Building wall supports, using a Sawsall, and carrying lumber. I didn’t know you were a carpenter.
”
You see, me having a couple of drinks every now and then makes me a “drinker” as much as hammering a few nails into boards makes him a “carpenter.”
Hi!
i’m on my second glass of wine, which is my “comment glass”, so here i am, catching up on google reader and commenting on this post, which i found from your list of 500. (Congrats, by the way! Quite an accomplishment!)
i did not read all the comments. i understand Christians and alcohol to be a very contraversial and confusing topic.
My take?
Jesus is all powerful, right?
He could have changed the water into purified water.
That’s where i’m at.
But how should i know? i’m just some quotation mark Christian quotation mark who thinks drinking is ok.
Just catching up on some old posts, via the list of 500. I grew up in Birmingham, and the Garage is my favorite bar in town. I have had many great nights and friendly reunions there.
Great site – keep it up.
This isn’t even an issue…I just enjoyed a fine beer (Chimay Blue) brewed and blessed by some monks in Belgium, who would be appalled that a bunch of historically and theologically inept Evangelicals are considering whether or not they should drink in secret (Pharisaical) or follow the model of Jesus and drink the same elixir believed to heal Leprousy (the Jews, while captive in babylon, discovered an alcoholic drink made with Hops, believed to heal a variety of ailments).
Lots of cool comments.
I'm at a crossroads with this.
I've been a Christian for over 20 years now and have always been taught and believed that drinking was "of the devil". I work for a christian tv station that is owned and operated out of a church. I've heard preaching from the pulpit about how so and so started drinking, ended up committing adultery and God basically killed them beacause later they drowned on a fishing trip after drinking in the boat. He was made the pefect example of what drinking will do to a christian and how God will judge them. Drinkers are seen as weak or backslidden where I live.
However, the last few years I've been re-evaluating some of my beliefs. I now have a few beers when I go out to dinner with my dad and even had a beer in a bistro with some non-christian friends for the first time.
My wife dissaproves and I don't blame her because we both have seen how destructive alcholol can be in our families lives.
I always felt that if I did something wrong and was not the "perfect" christian witness people around would go to hell because of me.
I still won't let anyone know because they would be blown away if they found out that "I" drink.
Wow! what a burden. That's my story. Hope someone can relate.
Check out the Christian band Disciple and their song "I Just Know", it answers alot.
If drinking is a sin, then Catholics are seriously compromising their chief sacrament….
It's been said many times, but yes, Jesus turned water into wine. He also drank wine at Passover–presumably every year but definitely the night before He died. Paul, who wrote most of the New Testament injunctions against drunkeness, is the same man who told Timothy to "drink a little wine to settle your stomach". Yup.
I don't personally drink. I don't like to drink. It makes me feel sick to even cook with alcohol. But I have no problems whatsoever with other Christians drinking responsibly. I went to a bar last night to celebrate my sister-in-law's b-day. She, my brother-in-law (her hubby), and my father-in-law were all drinking. I think they are awesome Christians and my opinion didn't change last night.
When I was 23 I went to a conference with the senior pastor of our church and some other members of our congregation. We went out to dinner one night, and the pastor ordered a bottle of wine for the table. I was never into the drinking scene in college, but had a few glasses of wine in the years that I had been old enough to. Even a cocktail with my mom once (whoa, going crazy here, right?). He basically teased me (in the lovingest, pastoriest way possible) until I took a sip of that wine.
A few months later, I got together with a former youth pastor of mine, and he asked if I wanted to get a drink. Well, as this was my second time drinking with clergy, I realized that ordering in a way that made it sound like I knew what I was doing was okay. We had beer. It was good.
Maybe there is a bar stool in hell with my name on it, but I doubt it. If there is, Martin Luther is probably the bar tender. That is if beer = hell
this is an American cultural thing. Christians in other countries drink without a second thought. Also, it is stupid. The bible does not condemn drinking, it condemns excess in all things other than the things of God. Period. Now, let's go grab a beer.