SCL

Ha! I am guessing that conversation was more than likely with MY husband You boosers… Why are we limiting this talk to beer? Besides, I think there should just be some formula in the bible where you calculate your weight, height, alcohol content of the beverage, etc. to figure out how many drinks you are allowed to have. Ha! Just kidding.

I’m glad me and my friends aren’t the only ones who do this:)
I think we should come up with a secret sign…something like the fish that Christians used to draw in the sand to let others know they followed Jesus. Maybe we can draw a beer bottle on the groud?

Nice black and tan in the photo.

That’s a hint, by the way.

being 6’3″ and 240 pounds God knows that it would be unlikely for me to ever risk becoming drunk on any level from any pint

if anything i think that christians should be beacons of responcible drinking in the community, would boozers go to the bar if they knew there were going to be a bunch of christians there playing scrabble

I’ve often wondered if our small group is the only one in the world where everybody BYOBs.

To quote and ecumenicalize G.K. Chesterton, “Wherever the [Christian] sun doth shine, there’s laughter and music and good red wine. At least I’ve always found it so — Benedicamus Domino!”

Thank you! The Bible never says anything about not having a drink ever in life! Can you please get your pastor to tell this to my pastor? They are father and son, so its not that hard to get them together.

Jesus turned water into WINE at a wedding. Not grape juice. Not fizzy water. Not fancy fruit drink. But WINE with (gasp) alcohol in it!

I do not personally drink beer, but I have several friends who do (one who used to be the worship leader at our church). And I think no differently of them for it.

There is no Bible verse saying not to drink beer or any other alcoholic beverages. However, the Bible does warn us against drinking too much (becoming drunk). It also warns us not to cause a brother to stumble. Drinking beer in front of a recovering alcoholic (Christian or not) is probably not wise.

There’s nothing wrong with drinking beer. But drinking TOO MUCH beer – or “causing that person to stumble” is wrong. That’s why the first time my friend wanted to order a beer with me there, he asked whether I minded or not. I thought that was very wise of him.

Don’t you love that restaurant dance that you have when a bunch of Christian friends meet for lunch or dinner. Say there’s 8 people and the waiter comes over and the first guy orders Iced Tea.

Then it’s Iced Tea, Iced Tea, Iced Tea, water (heretic), Iced Tea, Coors Light……huh?

Wait, I’ll change my Iced Tea to Sam Adams. Ooh! Make mine a margarita. Vodka martini for me! Etc etc…

Has this ever happened to you? I think it is as common as decaf coffee after church…

my fave is not subtly finding out, but telling people to not drink in public. though, i have to say i went out to a show with a great christian guy i was getting to know, and he flat out asked me mid conversation if i drank. i was slightly unprepared and probably sounded like an alcoholic. oh well.

My buddy is an associate pastor. He told me this joke, and I loved it…even moreso, because he’s on staff at a Baptist church.

“Jews don’t acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah. Buddhists don’t acknowledge God for their salvation. Baptists don’t acknowledge each other in the beer store”

Well my friends have Wine Night every Thursday at our house as a time to hang out and bring friends. Guess we aren’t so subtle…

Proverbs 31

I think those are good words to go by, even if you aren’t a king or ruler.

What gets me, though, is those Christians who do drink that look down on me and try to make me feel guilty for choosing not to drink alcohol. They truly act like I think I’m better than they are, and so they exclude me from all kinds of things. That’s bogus.

I don’t have a problem with people drinking alcohol. I actually find the variety and brewing process quite interesting, but I’m not interested in drinking it myself. Getting drunk is a problem. Driving after drinking is a problem. But drinking itself is not a problem with me. At all.

I have chosen not to drink for a variety of other reasons, but it really bugs me when Christians who do drink look at me like I have the plague for deciding not to. What’s the deal? Are they feeling guilty about it or what? Why am I getting shunned for my decision?

I have never really had a drink. My wife at a Daiquiri the other night but I didn’t like it. I do struggle with judging people though. (Say a quick prayer for me if you read this) Sadly, I believe our Christian subculture has become a Pharisee Factory. Read more about it on my blog.

One of the greatest pieces of advice given to me was by a mentor. He stated that the Christian life is all about balance. A verse to back it up is:

“It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other. The man who fears God will avoid all extremes.” Ecclesiastes 7:18

As a tribute to balance here is one verse for one extreme and one for another:

“It is not for kings, O Lemuel— not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer” Proverbs 31:4

“Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.” 1 Timothy 5:23

Romans 14 is a great passage that talks about respecting other brothers and sisters opinions in gray areas.

Dude, I laughed so hard when I read this one! You are right on.

A similar joke to the previous:

“What’s the difference between Catholics and Baptists?

A Catholic will speak to you in the liquor store.”

(I’m a Baptist, and I drink Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, and Guiness.

And I approve this message.)

Jesse, I totally get you. You’re absolutely in the right: your choice not to drink should not be condemned or scorned!

But believe you me, I have been publicly “chastised” by well meaning brothers and sisters on MANY occasions that ANY and ALL drinking is a SIN and (so they say) the Bible condemns it. And that I am living in sin until I choose to “return to God” and stop all “sinful” drinking of a glass of wine with dinner.

I think your persecutors and my persecutors have more in common than they realize… neither one of us has “missed the mark” in our position on alcohol, rather, they have missed it in their unnecessary censorship of what we choose according to our conscience, as the Bible allows.

The first Baptist joke I ever heard as I was converting from Catholicism was from my father in law:

Why do you have to bring at least 2 Baptists fishing with you?

If you bring only one he’ll drink all your beer.

Seriously, I drank enough while I was building my testimony in college to last a lifetime. Now, I don’t drink at all. Ever. And it’s because my children live in a town where college kids die every single year from alcohol-related incidents. Their uncle is an alcoholic and my grandfather was an alcoholic. I just want them to live in a zero-tolerance environment where, if they ever get an inkling to dabble in the devil’s brew, they will know their dad disappoves.

My parents let me sip alcohol every time they drank, even when I was tiny. I thought alcohol was part of being a grownup. So I majored in it at LSU. I never did graduate from there.

I’m with Billy Graham on the issue of alcohol. He said there’s nothing wrong with a glass of wine at dinner (or in my case a beer at a cookout) but he can’t even have one in Paris — he’s Billy Graham. If someone who had a weakness for alcohol saw him and decided, “it must be OK, BIlly Graham drinks,” it would be awful.

So if you drink without fear of ruining your witness, you might want to re-think your witness. Do people even know you’re a Christian?

Quoth Andy Field:

“I’m with Billy Graham on the issue of alcohol. He said there’s nothing wrong with a glass of wine at dinner (or in my case a beer at a cookout) but he can’t even have one in Paris — he’s Billy Graham. If someone who had a weakness for alcohol saw him and decided, “it must be OK, BIlly Graham drinks,” it would be awful.

So if you drink without fear of ruining your witness, you might want to re-think your witness. Do people even know you’re a Christian?”

–

I hate to say it, but Billy Graham has it all wrong [gasp!] on this one.

What your argument implies that “adhering to non-Biblical, but commonly held ideas about what Christians should and shouldn’t do” is a good witness.

Jesus said, “John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine and you said he has a demon. The Son of Man came both eating and drinking and you call him a drunkard and a glutton.”

If you’re willing to say that Jesus didn’t care about his “witness,” then go ahead. You could also use the same reasoning to criticize his association with tax collectors and hookers. But you’d be on the side of the Pharisees. I don’t think you want that, do you?

How ’bout we let people know we’re Christians by our love for each other and for the fatherless and the widow, not by our ability to adhere to made-up prohibitions?

Jesus and Billy Graham were in very different cultures and situations. The concept of not doing something that’s allowable in order to keep a weaker brother from stumbling is in the letters of St. Paul.

Here’s C. S. Lewis on alcohol: “I have always in my books been concerned simply to put forward ‘mere’ Christianity, and am no guide on these (most regrettable) ‘inter-denominational’ questions. I do however strongly object to the tyrannical and unscriptural insolence of anything that calls itself a Church and makes teetotalism a condition of membership. Apart from the more serious objection (that Our Lord Himself turned water into wine and made wine the medium of the only rite He imposed on all His followers), it is so *provincial* (what I believe you people call ‘small town’). Don’t they realize that Christianity arose in the Mediterranean world where, then as now, wine was as much a part of the normal diet as bread?”

“Jesus and Billy Graham were in very different cultures and situations. The concept of not doing something that’s allowable in order to keep a weaker brother from stumbling is in the letters of St. Paul.”

–

Clearly Jesus’ actions caused offense among many of the legalists in his day. I think we all need to make a careful distinction between “Someone might look down on me for [drinking/smoking/movies/rock music]” and “my actions are likely to lead someone into real sin.”

Jesus didn’t really tolerate those who wished to claim offense at his partying with hookers and heathens because he knew that their concern was less about doing good than looking good.

All seriousness aside, this is a hilarious blog, especially for those of us who are recovering fundamentalists. Thanks!

Anonymous has it with the recovering fundamentalists bit. I am a recovering Baptist fundamentalist, so I guess that I am in for a wild ride. I just found out the other day that there are bigger issues than creationism versus evolutionism. (Okay, so I’m slightly exaggerating, but I hope that you get the point.)

I mean, to drink or not to drink is such an unimportant question that we should really give up the argument. There are bigger fish to fry (as the saying goes).

Nothin’ better than a Boulevard Wheat, and a deep theological discussion on doctrine with the guys.. Love It!

I went to a Catholic university (i’m not Catholic, not that it matters) and one of my favorite things they had was “Theology on Tap” where students could go to one of the local bars and drink beer with professors and talk theology. Even though the school had its roots in christianity a lot of the students had no spiritual foundation. Things like Theology On Tap provided a safe and fun way to create conversation aand it drew a lot of people in. Honestly it was awesome.

This is a very interesting thread, and a question that I, a Baptist-cum-Methodist-cum-Baptist-again, have often pondered about. But isn’t it true that the teetotal mentality is more or less a post-19th-century American thing, that isn’t really an issue in the Church in, say, Europe?

I’ve loved your posts on this subject. It’s SO true. It’s even harder when you’re going out to eat and would like a drink.. but you only have a minute and a half to size up the situation.

I get into a sticky point with some of the christian ladies I know because one of the best ways to explain where my house is is to say “I live a block up from the Beer Depot”… but I feel that I can’t describe it like that to everyone out of fear of looking like an alcoholic whose only point of reference is liquor stores. I thought I was safe once but I was shot back with a blank stare and a “we don’t drink.. I don’t know where that is.”

My roommate was babysitting for our lead pastors brother’s family… Does that make sense? anyway, they only live about a block away from each other. So she is sitting there, the kids have been put in bed, and our pastor comes over, goes to the fridge and grabs a beer, because they were out at his house… He looks at her and says, “yes, your pastor drinks beer” We laughed a ton when she came home and told us!!!!

two things:

1. bourbon was invented by a baptist preacher… same guy who started my college

2. not drinking is an american thing… at age of 18 i had a host mother in brussels ask me if i wanted to try belgium beer… on a sunday no less

Beer is called a brawler, but beyond that, can’t think of anything.

Ha Morgan Collins I like the way you think!

I look for hints too haha

Charlie the Lion is right — Not drinking is an American thing, not a Christian thing. There was a time, in the not too distant past, when beer was what you gave children to drink because (unpasteurized) milk and (parasite-ridden) water could kill them.

I drink very little, and I don’t like beer. But if someone makes a point of *not drinking* I assume they are either (a) a Mormon, (b) a Muslim, or (c) an alcoholic.

Think about that next time you’re so proud of pointing out that you don’t drink.

This post made me laugh! It is so true, my friend.

I agree with the past few commenters; not drinking is really a North American thing. Many Christians of other cultures include alcohol in their everyday lives.

I personally do not believe my salvation is hanging on whether or not I enjoy having a lovely pint (or three) of Rickard's White.

Alcoholism is a very serious problem, but the problem lies in the drinker, not the drink.

LOL…. Beer? At my church we want to know "do you smoke weed too???"

I don't drink personally, but the Bible says don't get DRUNK. Not, don't drink.

I understand everyone's opinion on this topic. I try to stray as far from legalism as I can. More than it being a bad witness, I'd like to ask you, because the Lord has convicted me not to drink, why do you drink? We do live in a different society now than in Jesus' day. We have alot more laws. My pastor's son-in-law was convicted to 5 years in prision, because he got into a car accident and killed someone after he had been drinking. He was a church member. He was a casual drinker. Just one drink. And that "one drink" cost him 5 years of his life, away from his 2 growing children. He wasn't legally drunk, but that tiny bit of alcohol they found in his system was enough to convict him. Just because "it tastes good" or just because "i want to" or those good enough reasons, when perhaps our children are watching everything we do, and they say, my dad drinks, so why not?? I don't think they could have gotten into a wreck on a camel. We have to think about the times in which WE live, and think, is this the BEST thing for me to do? Just a thought…. not judging you or telling you what to do….LOL!

I am replying to my own comment, because the Lord works in mysterious ways! Just after I wrote the "above" I went to pick up my daughter from [public] school. One of my daughter's best friends, her dad crossed in front of my car to get his daughter. He literally picked her up and was twirling her. She was so happy! They went back to their car…. and I INDEED took notice… it was a beer transportation van, St. Pauli Girl, covered with images of beer mugs and scantily clad women. My 1ST instinct after having beer on my brain, in all honestly was… judgmental. I always know because I tend to put a mental wall up, and then the Lord convicts my heart, and I realize what I am doing……

…..He gave me a love and compassion for them, and I thought, perhaps, you guys on here, and my husband, perhaps the casual drinker, instead of being a BAD witness, is actually being a GOOD witness. It is a doorway in that he can relate to another man, a lost sinner, and get down on his level as Jesus did. They can get to know one another, and perhaps thru love, that man's heart can be changed. I believe, as the Bible says, God can use and work thru anyone. I am rethinking my previous judgement now!!! Thank you all!!!!

Okay, the whole "times in which we live" is a little bit out there. For Jesus to acknowledge that people called Him a drunkard because he did in fact drink wine shows that drunkenness was just as much an issue in His day as it is in ours. There were STILL people who drank until they were smashed, and you can bet they murdered, raped, drove donkey carts over cliffs, orgied, drank all their money away and abandoned their families, etc. after they did . His times were no different than ours in relation to alchol.

Any Christian who views drinking as a sin, isn't a Christian. Jesus drank, and fundamentally we have to believe that Jesus never committed a sin. If you believe drinking is a sin, then you can't believe Jesus didn't sin, because he drank. Alcohol. And if you think Jesus sinned, well there's really no point, is there?

People choose to stay away from alcohol for a number of reasons, just as the Amish choose to stay away from a lot of things, as do Hutterites, Mennonites, and so on. It doesn't make them wrong, but it doesn't make the people who don't agree with them less as Christians either.

This is mostly a cultural thing. Christians in many other countries drink socially without an eye raised in the bunch. I do not have a problem with drinking, as long as it is in moderation. John, your post made me laugh out loud "That's a good sign" i love it.

I drink socially, in moderation, and have absolutely zero qualms about it. My parents, however, are teetotallers. They like to pretend that I do not drink.

A few years back, after a New Years Eve contemporary worship service for 20 to 30 something's, we all went to hang out at the worship leader's house for a little party. Everyone was sitting around, mingling, chatting, eating, etc. It just so happened that for whatever reason, my wife had in the car stuff to make sour apple martini's and chocolate martini's (what were the odds of that?!? teehee) and so she gives me the nod and I go out to the car and bring it all in. She sets up shop and starts to make martini's for anyone who wanted one.

Not two seconds later, several of the guys disappear like a puff of smoke, head out to the liquor store and come back with ample supplies of their favorite beer. It honestly only happened the very moment they saw my wife walk in with her "supplies". We both thought it was hilarious.

Someone needs to tell my Sunday School class that this conversation is suppose to be subtle. Every Sunday, the first 15 minutes of class is spent discussing drinking, drinks, etc. My husband and I don't drink, not because we think it's sinful, it's just our choice and conviction. Throughout these conversations we sit there with nothing to add. I'm glad no one in our class is condemned for drinking, but at the same time, Sunday School really isn't the time and place to talk about your favorite alcoholic beverage. And this is in a pretty traditional Southern Baptist Church.

[...] for subtle hints in Christian friends to see if they drink, like looking for beer in the fridge or a bottle opener keychain for their keys. I laughed at that one, since I’ve had a Killean’s Red keychain for my [...]

I am a recovering Christian rock band member and this one totally cracks me up. This was commonplace on tour as well, secretly trying to find out who in other bands would have a beer with you after a show. I was the only member of my band who enjoyed beer so I always had my “beerdar” going. Sadly, the other members of my band thought alcohol was “poison” and evil and all that so I had to be a stealth drinker. I remember sneaking around with other bands after shows to grab a pint. It’s both sad and quite hilarious, I think. I think there may need to be an entire blog devoted to the weirdness of the Christian music scene… Hmm…that gives me an idea…

I ordered a beer at a christian singles' lunch after church one Sunday and got a memo from the leader later that week in email. They didn't want us drinking at official church functions. I ran sound at church that day, so by 1pm I had 'worked' six hours that day, and it wasn't like I ordered a pitcher. Maybe I should have.

Anyways, I found a bottle opener keychain that might be a little too racy. It sends the message that I like beer and then some…
http://theybecamefools.com/?p=109

I just started checking out the site (btw, love it) after having listened to the audiobook.

I haven't read any of the comments, but thought I'd share my thoughts/testimony on the topic:

In high school, while I was a born-again Christian, I would get together with some friends to drink for the sole purpose of getting drunk and "having a good time". I won't try to justify it with an excuse or say I was rebelling, I just did it.

After recognizing the effects of drinking heavily during my track season that year, I stopped and decided to hold off at least until I was 21. Then I began to date a girl who is a PK and her family strictly believes that Christians should not drink any form of alcohol. So while we dated I warmed up to the same belief. However, time went on and I broke up with this girl.

As my 21st birthday approached, I began to pray about the decision of whether or not to drink. God gave me the conviction to continue to stay away from alcohol, to which I have done to this day.

I know it's not for everyone and that God personally worked on my heart to stay away from alcohol.

That said, I do have a pet peeve about Christians who drink. It is all in a person's intentions. I know "Christians" who say "I drink, but don't get drunk. I just drink cause I like the beverage and at the end of a long day it helps to relax me."

That last part is what gets to me. To me, if alcohol is consumed for the purpose of having an effect on your body, that is the first stages of drunkenness. While a person may not be crazy drunk, it's an effect on the body and falls into that category. Consuming the alcohol has no medicinal purpose, the relaxation effect of the alcohol as a drug, technically classified as a Central Nervous System Depressant,in the same family as Valium.

Anyways, sorry for the long rant. I'm looking forward to exploring the site more. Keep up the good work!

I'm a pastor and grew up in a pastor's home – teetotalers! (BTW – no one uses that term anymore…) I was convinced without doubt that drinking was wrong then and gradually gave up that and tons of other hard core legalistic beliefs…

BUT, what has absolutely cracked me up in the years where I think drinking is fine is how many of my friends make it their life's goal to find me something I like. I cannot stand beer. Seriously, it makes me gag. Wine, not so much. (I took a huge tug off of a bottle in my Italian granpa's workshop fridge… it wasn't Kool Aid! That pretty did me in for wine at an early age…) In fact, I get teased by my more "macho" friends that I like girly drinks. Apparently, anything with a citrus flavor isn't manly.

At any rate, I remember a night at dinner with friends -we had long since done the "do you drink beer dance" – and I discovered I liked a mixed drink with some kind of sour taste to it. There was much celebration! That cracked me up, because, what if I was an alcoholic and didn't know it? It would have been my Christian friends who helped me discover it.

Well, I'm not. I enjoy a good Mike's Hard or a Smirnoff Ice and believe it or not some really dark ales and ciders. But my al time favorite now is easily rum and coke. I've mixed coke with enough things to know what I like… I'm still waiting for whatever a buzz feels like though. And I haven't a clue about being drunk. When the parents come, the booze goes away. Call me what you want, my mom would faint, so I put it away for their sake.

Oh, and if you're in my neighborhood, drop by. I've got a great porch for a cold one and a nice fat stogie. Or was that a different blog…

Romans 14:21 and Romans 15:1-3. No, I see no place in the Bible that says "thou canst have a beer or a glass of wine", but I do see many places where we are instructed as Christians to be sober-minded. In these verses in Romans, it tells me as a Christian that I'm not going to be condemned if I have a glass of wine, however, I need to look at the impact that me having that glass of wine might have on the unsaved or weak Christians around me. I might even be having a negative influence on an alcoholic around me. I believe God is asking me to consider them and their needs above my own desires, just as Christ did. If by me having a glass of wine or a beer is going to cause a stumblingblock for them, then I should not do it. Personally, I have made the decision to not drink any alcoholic beverages anymore for a variety of reasons, but I don't judge Christians who disagree with me in this regard. Just my own personal decision.

Is this the sign of a generation of Compromising Christians? What ever happened to
1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy
Can we honestly say we are closer to God after slugging down 2,3 possibly 6 Budweisers? I am not judging, because I am speaking to myself too on this rant. Are we really reflecting Christ as we get slowly buzzed from the intoxicants? Where does the line end? Is it ok to have 3 Budweisers, then two tokes off a one hitter, then have an in depth "spiritual" conversation about Christ? How are we acting while we are drinking? What is in our heart at the time of getting buzzed? I often ponder if we are the generation of vipers that will be quite surprised when the day of judgement is at hand. Just a thought folks, because I am guilty too.